Additional Topic: Further Unravelling the Puzzling Mystery of Dee Jay’s “Shitty” Fierce Punch (AKA What If Dee Jay’s Heavy Attacks Didn’t Suck Ass As Much As Everyone Told You They Do?)
Since before I can remember, popular sentiment on the fickle Internet has been that Dee Jay’s normals mostly suck, particularly his heavier normal attacks. This idea was so rampant in comments that even I believed it for the longest time (check out the later part of my earlier post here for an example) – so much so that I tragically made the same mistake that most USF4 Dee Jay players do . . . believing others’ assumptions without adequately testing them out for myself. Funnily enough, after doing much testing and research, I have come to the conclusion that Dee Jay’s Fierce is not nearly as bad or useless as everybody chose to think it is. Its use does come with some caveats, mind you, but that doesn’t mean we should just disregard any beneficial applications the move might have. So let's do a bit of exploration, shall we?
CROUCHING FIERCE PUNCH
For starters, here is a quick list of the pros and cons I have noted for Dee Jay’s crouching Fierce. Knowing these upfront is important because it will dictate how we can actually make use of this move in a beneficial way with the risk reduced as much as possible. So here is the list I have come up with to date . . .
Pros
- Dee Jay’s crouching Fiece is relatively
quick to animate and actually hits at several different places/points on
its animation (e.g., with the high cancellable elbow hit, on the top part
of the progressing elbow, and even at the tip near the end of the Fierce’s
animation). These different elements of striking give it multiple uses
(early high hit to cancel into special attacks, top of mid-animation elbow
for anti-air, and tip of elbow near end of the move’s animation for
footsie use).
- The crouch Fierce has deceptively farther
range than most opponents think it does and covers a lot of space in front
of Dee Jay’s body. It can be difficult for opponents to avoid it,
particularly when they want to be constantly advancing and throwing
attacks.
- The move does slightly more damage than a
strong attack but, more importantly, does a ton more stun (200, and 250 on
counter hit). Incorporating this move into your gameplay is a great way to
land more dizzies more often.
- Psychologically, players hate eating heavy
button moves like this. This increases their frustration level and can
lead to sloppiness on their part if they are not mindful of it.
Cons
- Crouch Fierce is easy to whiff punish if
it misses (therefore, always be trying to connect with the opponent’s
sprite when doing this normal). What’s more, you need to space that move
as perfectly as possible to minimize the chances of being punished after
it (see more below).
- Recovery is -7 frames at best, so you can
be easily punished by some supers, Ultras, and specials if it is blocked
(even when your spacing is perfect).
- Can be countered with a focus attack as
well if you are too obvious with it. Not always enough to get crumpled but
you risk a maul and loss of advantage if you are predictable with it too
many times.
That said, and as stated above, I do believe there are ways to use this move effectively without paying a heavy price for doing so. Here are the key points to keep in mind:
- Try to throw this move at opponents at a range where just the tip of the Fierce’s animation connects with the opponent. While the recovery on block is still a disappointing -7 at this range, the Fierce elbow has a lot of push back so most opponents’ normal attacks won’t reach you during this vulnerable period should your Fierce be blocked.
- It’s a particularly good move to use when you think the opponent will try to advance on you. The quickness of the elbow and the many different hit boxes on the attack will increase the probability that they will eat it during their own attempts to mount an attack. What’s more, getting hit by this move tends to unsettle opponents and sometimes makes them want to get immediate revenge, increasing the chances of them getting sloppy and providing you avenues for further damage.
- After the successful hit from the Fierce
(and even after the blocked version), you maintain advantageous distance
relative to the opponent – meaning you can often: follow up with an
additional normal attack, light Sobat, or Max Out; use an
Upkick if your opponent tries to throw out a counterattack normal after
the Fierce; or even occasionally go for a cross up attack afterwards. The
main point is that you are able to continue pressure on the opponent here in
a way that other methods wouldn’t necessarily allow.
- If opponents get wise to your use of the low Fierce and start trying to focus attack it, switch the Fierce up with
your two-hit standing medium kick. This alternate move also does great
damage and, because it is two hits in quick succession, will kill any
normal focus attack it connects with. Alternating between these two moves
alone creates a useful mix up against those who assume they can just focus
attack you for free.
- You can often follow a Max Out in with a
dash to set up that perfect low Fierce range, then do either a blocked Fierce hit
with the tip, the two-hit medium kick to destroy focus, your own block if
you suspect the opponent will try a reversal, or even a throw if the
opponent gets shell-shocked by your attacks. Again, the idea is to
maximize your mind game options for more successful mix ups.
- The Crouch Fierce allows you to maintain a
down/back charge consistently which is where you want to stay almost all
the time unless moving or attacking (for stronger Dee Jay offense
and defense as noted here).
- Like Dee Jay’s other heavy normals, Dee
Jay’s crouch Fierce awards a nice chunk of Super meter if blocked, and
even more if it successfully hits. Another good reason to incorporate it
into your regular gameplay.
- Don’t forget to sometimes use the crouch
Fierce as an anti-air or in lieu of a weaker combo (even if that combo
ends in a special). What it might lack in damage, it sometimes makes up
for in dizzy potential and the pressure the opponent feels when dizzy is
growing ever closer. As an example, sometimes it’s best to follow up a
successful hitting Short Knee with a crouching Fierce rather than a weak
attack combo into a Short Dread Kick (due to dizzy potential, similar
damage amounts, and decent positional advantage as well as mounting
pressure). Because the Fierce’s animation is so wide, you can actually
strike with the knee from pretty far out on a grounded opponent and still
tack on the Fierce hit for a quick two-hit combo with decent benefits.
Remember: the farther out you can hit with the jump knee, the more
confusing a front mix up you can lay down on your opponent (as explained in
this earlier post).
- The crouch Fierce might also be a useful attack to use after a shimmy (to defeat an opponent's delayed throw tech). After making the opponent block a heavier jump in hit, simply take a small step back and then unleash the low Fierce. An opponent who tries to block after an initial blocked jump in attack and then tries to do a throw tech during the latest frames of the teching window will very often eat this attack. And while it does not allow you to combo after it, it does reach the opponent (unlike many of Dee Jay's attacks) and does a nice chunk of damage (not to mention a ton of stun), thereby deterring your opponent from using this delayed tech strategy mindlessly. It also will keep you from getting hit by an opponent's immediate reversal after the jump in (since the walk back also serves as a partial block) and allows you to charge for a defensive upkick while the Fierce is being done. Note: there are ways to beat this shimmy tactic, such as an opponent attacking your feet while you walk back (so be on the look out for opponents who are able capitalize on this). A useful explanation of delayed throw teching and shimmying can be found here (in this case, for SF6 but the concepts are still similar to how it would work in SF4).
- Note that a hitting Fierce with
no follow-up cancel still has a recovery of -3, so be wary of using this
tactic if the opponent has a super or Ultra that moves far forward and
connects within 3 frames (e.g., Ryu’s super fireball).
- After a successful Fierce or two, do your
best to keep close to your opponent and try to pick away at them with
various attacks, even if they are only stray hits and not full combos. As
long as your opponent continues to block, that dizzy meter won’t drop and
stray hit dizzy points will continue to add up over time. I have sometimes
landed a successful dizzy a full ten seconds or more after the first
successful hitting Fierce simply because I was able to keep the opponent
pinned and eating further hits for all that time.
- All that being said, once opponents gain access to specials, Supers or Ultras that can hit your blocked Fierce, STOP using this attack in ways where it will get you punished for big damage. Reason being, the damage you take becomes too high for you to assume that degree of risk. In most cases, though, this will usually require either an opponent to do an EX version of a special or spend their meter on a full super or Ultra; meaning, you can frequently use the Fierce a fair bit before this restriction comes into play. There are only a few characters that can just punish an optimized block Fierce right from the start of a match (Sakura’s dragon punch, for example, which advances as it hits, being one).
CLOSE STANDING FIERCE PUNCH
When doing this move, Dee Jay performs two straight punches using each of his arms, with the second hit doing more damage than the first. This is the version of Dee Jay’s Fierce that has probably gotten the most flack, primarily because of its admittedly poor game design. The move strangely forces stand yet, to this day, still whiffs completely on ducking characters who are smaller (as noted several times by prolific gaming YouTubers such as Bafael). In addition to this, the move (upon initial glance) only works when Dee Jay is incredibly close to the opponent (potentially limiting its practicality). What’s more, at certain ranges and on some opponents, only the first, lower-damage hit will connect, limiting your overall damage potential. Lastly, the move has a large amount of recovery on block, so that Dee Jay is quite vulnerable to counterattack whenever the Fierce is not successfully landed. Taking all these things into account, I was DAMN CLOSE to agreeing with Bafael that the move is indeed useless . . . and, in so doing, risked destroying my own universal philosophy that every normal has a use IF you are willing to search long enough to find it. Very close, indeed.
Nevertheless, at the eleventh hour, I did manage to come up
with one possible use for it, albeit under very specific circumstances. By no
means is this move needed to win with Dee Jay. But a case can be made for its
potential utility, as we shall see.
a) The first thing I noted regarding this move was that it is ordinarily difficult to get the close two-hit version of Dee Jay’s Fierce punch by walking into its required range. However, when you jump in with a light kick Knee Shot (even from fairly high up and from slightly farther out), you can press Fierce early and get that two-hit Fierce on most opponents almost every single time. This is important because it gets past one of the handicaps of the close Fierce – that is, being able to use it at a range where it reliably comes out.
b) The second thing I noticed is that you can actually perform a version of an option select with these two moves alone (i.e., knee shot into close 2-hit Fierce). Specifically, there is a timing you can use for pressing Fierce where Dee Jay will consistently land the Fierce if the initial knee shot hits but the Fierce won’t come out when the initial knee shot is blocked. I suspect that this is due to the hit stun properties of the knee compared to the block stun of the knee. In any case, with a little bit of practice, you can get this option select timing quite easily (it almost feels like chain combo rhythm in the button presses). This is a surprisingly useful tactic because a lot of opponents like to follow up with a spammed reversal after a blocked knee (since they know that most Dee Jays don’t want to put themselves in closer to an opponent without protecting themselves with additional follow-up attacks). Furthermore, it gets around the problem of doing the Fierce where it will leave you vulnerable to counterattack when blocked. This is due to the fact that, when using this option select, the Fierce won’t ever come out after a blocked knee, so you are free to punish opponents when they come down from their unwise reversal (and also don’t have to worry about the Fierce coming out when it will be blocked).
NOTE: you can also do the knee/Fierce option select and then follow up with low attacks (or a throw) if the knee is blocked, since the Fierce never comes out unless the initial knee hits. Meaning, you now have two ways to keep an opponent on edge – either blocking yourself after the blocked knee or continuing your attack further once landing on the ground. Which you do depends on what your opponent does after they block the initial knee. In other words, it becomes a useful tactic for creating PRESSURE.
There are a few caveats to note when using this tactic. To begin with, this option select only works consistently when the opponent is STANDING. Against most opponents (except larger ones), an unblocked knee on a crouching opponent will cause a close Fierce that completely misses since the move doesn’t hit crouching opponents very well (this, as noted above, being its infamous tragic flaw). In such a case, though, you can either try a duck Fierce as a second hit (provided you can’t get hit afterwards) or you can follow up with another normal into a full combo. In general, though, it is a very bad idea to use this option select on a croucher, so be sure to use a different follow-up against most opponents in these scenarios. The short knee into 2-hit Fierce also doesn't seem to work on some characters such as Sagat and Hakan (you usually get the far version of the standing Fierce for some reason).
So, at long last, we now have at least one use for the
notoriously awful close standing Fierce, although with certain conditions
required. The question now is: why bother using this tactic at all if its uses
are so limited? Well, here are a few reasons:
- The
Fierce, like all heavy attacks, does heavy damage as well as heavy stun.
Thus, for just two simple hits, you can take a nice chunk out of both an
opponent’s life meter and dizzy meter.
- When
used properly, the option select minimizes the risks associated with this
normal move (i.e., heavy recovery when blocked).
- You
can also red cancel the first hit of the Fierce to lead into additional
combo routes (e.g., Ultra 2, dash into low Fierce and Hyperfist, etc.).
- When
the two-hit Fierce alone connects, it pushes the opponent back to a safe
range for Dee Jay with some additional pressure possibilities (e.g., a low
Roundhouse slide after the hitting Fierce often strikes at the optimal
range to make the slide safe if blocked).
- The
option select helps create further useful openings for Dee Jay to do large
damage, particularly against opponents who like to spam reversals in the
middle of your block strings.
- The
option select keeps the number of hits in Dee Jay’s normal strings to a
minimum (remember, too many attacks is one of the sins that cause most Dee
Jay players to lose).
- The
two-hit Fierce will break through an opponent who tries to focus attack
after the blocked knee (since the two quick hits of the Fierce will
destroy a regular focus attack).
- The
long animation of the Fierce gives you time to charge both back and down
for a full charge by the time it finishes. Again, this ties back to one of
the earlier rules for Dee Jay success (“always be charging”).
Now, is this a game-changing tactic that Dee Jay players
have slept on to their own detriment? Probably not. But at least it concludes
my quest to find a use for even this most badly designed version of a Fierce
normal. The Internet can now rejoice. Case closed.
FAR STANDING DEE JAY FIERCE
This version of Dee Jay’s Fierce is a standing version of an uppercut, similar to the final hits of his EX Hyperfist, and with a property not often seen in SF4. Specifically, it sends the opponent into the air for additional juggling hits if the Fierce strikes them as a counter hit. The problem, though, is that the move has limited range and awful recovery, so there is some inherent risk anytime you do it. The key then is to mitigate the risk where possible and maximize the rewards where it does succeed.
To maximize your striking success with the Fierce, both in terms of not having it blocked and getting the counter hit state, you first want to be striking with it at an optimal range. This is obviously not from very close to the opponent given that the recovery on this move when blocked is going to leave you hung out to dry every time. That said, trying to consciously hit with the uppercut portion (as we would do with Dee Jay's footsie-based EX Hyperfist) is not particularly useful either because it has a tendency to whiff and not reliably give the counter hit state (and also leaves you open to a heavy whiff punish). Instead, the sweet spot for success with this move is to try for it at a range where Dee Jay will start striking with the part of the normal attack’s animation right before the animation of his standing uppercut. This is the timing and range I have found that has given the most reliable success while also pushing the opponent out to a maximum distance when blocked (thereby reducing the risk of the Fierce’s long recovery somewhat – NOT completely but better than nothing). It also helps to attempt this move primarily when your opponent is getting frustrated and tries to move in on you to begin pressure (in essence, they will end up walking into the Fierce’s animation, often leading into a counter hit when they press buttons and consequently leading to the heavy damage benefit you are looking for).
Now that we have figured out the way to best get the prized juggle state for further damage, what moves should we use from there? Well, it very much depends on your distance from the opponent and whether you have charged built, When you don’t have time to build charge, the easiest follow-up is a far standing Roundhouse kick for decent damage. If you have charge, either a regular or EX Dread Kick can juggle for notable damage return. At the right distance, you can even juggle with a dread kick cancelled into super and cancelled into Ultra 1 for truly amazing damage. I’ve also heard of combos where the Fierce is followed by a low Roundhouse slide in the corner, then into a juggling Ultra 2. A lot of these combos are very much distance- and situation-specific, mind you. But it is useful for you to be aware of all the possibilities, so that you are able to apply them when the situation allows.
NOTE: You can also use the counter hit version of Fierce as
an anti-air against a jumping opponent although the timing and range to make
this work is finicky (especially when more reliable options are also
available). Nevertheless, if you can find a way to make it work, go for it.
